BEYOND AND BEFORE BIG SKY
MWE3.com speaks with Steve Nardelli
of the SYN
by Robert Silverstein
Leaving the pop music spotlight in London for the fashion business
in the middle of the Carnaby Street heyday of the late 60s,
singer-songwriter Steve Nardelli has really been making up for lost
time since reactivating his mid 1960s band The Syn.
In 2004, nearly 40 years after the Syn began, Nardelli began recording
with Peter Banks again and, in 2005 in yet another Syn lineup, with
Chris Squire. Evoking visions of the first two Yes albums, the results
can be fully appreciated on two groundbreaking Syn albums with both
Chris Squire (Syndestructible, 2005) and Pete Banks (The
Original SYN, 2004). For those familiar with the history of the
Syn and how that whole scene somehow morphed into the original 1969
Yes, the circumstances behind the 04-'05 Syn reunions were quite
sad. Original Syn keyboard genius Andrew Jackman passed away in 2003
leaving Steve Nardelli to finally strategize a well planned reimplementation
of the Syn legacy for a whole generation of Yes fans who completely
missed the early works of Nardelli, Squire and Banks in the 60s
Syn. Nardelli followed Original Syn and Syndestructible
with a DVD of the January 06 Syn U.S. tour and an underrated
album of rock protest songs with several Dylan-esque Nardelli originals
called Armistice Day. In the aftermath of the 04/06
Syn reentry, Squire and Nardelli had an ill-timed break up, leaving
fans to ponder if the original Syn will ever record again one day.
Much to his credit, Nardelli has forged ahead these past few years.
His Umbrello Records imprint, based in London and New York, has released
several CD and video on demand releases by diverse artists, including
a Bob Dylan tribute CD from U.K. songstress Julie Felix and a prog-rock
CD by K2 featuring guitarist Allan Holdsworth. Nardellis latest
and possibly greatest music with The Syn can now be heard on the April
2009 release Big Sky. Building upon the progressive ideals
of his mid 2000s reunions with both Banks and Squire, Big
Sky allows Nardelli to fully realize his compositional and band
leadership skills. One of the most underrated of the original 60s
English rock poets and singers of the 1960s, Nardelli has composed
and created an engaging batch of new Syn songs for Big Sky,
co-written with guitarist and Big Sky producer Francis Dunnery.
Also taking part in the Big Sky sessions are the highly regarded
former Yes keyboardist Tom Brislin, Echolyn guitarist Brett Kull,
drummer Paul Ramsey, Theo Travis (sax) and Dorie Jackson (backing
vocals). The first Syn album to feature the core lineup of Nardelli,
Dunnery and Brislin, Big Sky is a unique, 21st century mod
/ prog rock album thats just as inclined to draw on electronica,
acoustica, World Beat, jazz and lyrical, Dylan-esque folk. Ten tracks
clocking in at 54 minutes, Big Sky is a myriad of musical treasures
on a big musical canvas. Tastefully complimenting Nardelli and Dunnerys
new songs on Big Sky, Brislins Wakeman style mellotron-etched
flute keyboard sound is as stylish now as when he served as the keyboardist
with Yes on their Symphonic tour of 01. Taking his place
as the latest guitarist / producer in Syn history, Francis Dunnery
makes a consistent presence with his tasteful back-up vocals and chiming
electric guitars. If you enjoyed Syndestructible back in 05,
then youll find a lot to admire on Big Sky. In the spirit
of classic mastersfrom Dylan to Lennonthe Syns Big
Sky takes it's place among the great albums of 21st century rock.
{The following interview with Steve Nardelli
took place on the afternoon of March 15, 2009 in New York City - editor}
MWE3: Where does Big Sky find the Syn now in this decade?
SN: I think whats interesting about Big Sky is that it's
an album which is definitely very much of the 21st century. If you
look at the musicians on itthe influences from different generations.
From Tom Brislin, whos a young 35 year old guy to Francis Dunnery,
whos like 45 and then to me and my generation from the 60s.
That mix of influences has created, actually an album which is very
much 21st century. And yet it has all the hallmarks of a Syn album.
The kind of thing we were doing in the late 60s, prior to the
evolution of the band, when it became Yes. Its still got that
Syn element about it, which is almost Beatle-esque, I think in the
construction of the songs and the way they develop. So I think it's
quite interesting. It is definitely an evolution in terms of the band
and it's certainly a new direction. But it's a new direction for the
21st century. We call it neo-prog or mod-prog but at the same time
it's very much based in a Syn ethic in terms of the music, and the
way it's constructed, and the arrangements. And I guess that comes
a lot from my song writing which has been a consistent in the history
of The Syn. So theres always gonna be that element to it. But
at the same time, as I say, different people have come in and added
the different musicians with different influences they bring with
them. It still ended up with this album, which is very Syn like. But
it's not like Syndestructible though, interestingly.
MWE3: Francis said he wanted to build Big Sky around your voice
as the primary instrument.
SN: He said that to me. He said, These are great, fantastic
songs. He thinks Im one of the top three rock vocalists
in the world. Fran is a big fan of mine, my voice yeah. And he said,
It's very important that people hear your voice cause
it's so good. He felt in Syndestructible it was too much
about everything going on around. The voice was just an instrument
on Syndestructible. He said that, And yet, the most important
thing on Syndestructible is your voice, if people listen to
it. It was the best thing on Syndestructible. That was
his opinion.
MWE3: It seems like you were going for that a little bit towards the
end of the Syndestructible lineup with Chris. You were going
for more of the song, rather than a prog-rock style.
SN: Well Ive always been a song man anyway. So I believe
in the song and the melody. Lyrics are also very important. So theres
that to it. Because Francis produced the album so theres a lot
of his influence on it, although it's multi layered. The songs sound
simple but if you start to take them apart and see how theyre
constructed, theyre actually very difficult and very complicated
in their own way. Funnily enough. But theres a simplicity to
them as well, so theyre very easy to listen to. I think the
album will appeal to a lot of different genre of music fans. Not just
prog for the sake of being prog.
MWE3: How is Big Sky different from Syndestructible...
SN: Well, the songs are actually very similar to the songs I wrote
for Syndestructible, interestingly enough. In terms of, thats
how I write. Its more to do with what you do to a song. If I
play you a song on the guitar with me that's singing it with guitar,
thats a basic song. What changes is the same as like what...we
talked about Yes of course. If you listen to when Jon Anderson sang
a song, it was Jon on guitar saying this is my song. Its very
simple. Its what happens after that in terms of the way they
arrange it, take off in different directions musically that changes
the elements of the song. The reality is, the song writing is the
same, so theres no difference between the songs I wrote for
Syndestructible...theyre different songs of course, but
theyre songs that I wrote for Big Sky. Came from the
same source.
MWE3: Weve talked about that key Syndestructible lineup.
Its interesting that now you should work here in New York with
Francis Dunnery. He says hes a big fan of yours.
SN: Well hes a big fan of mine, but Im a big fan of his!
I met him a few times, with Pete Banks. We were working on a potential
project with him. I introduced Pete Banks to him on a project I was
doing with Pete Banks. A separate project to the Syn. And thats
when I first met him. And then when we did the More Drama tour we
needed
a guitarist and I brought Francis in. So if wed have done the
More Drama tour, which never happened, Francis was going to play with
the Syn on that tour.
MWE3: Thats the tour that didnt happen?
SN: That was the one with Steve Howe playing. And Alan White with
his band, called White and the Syn and then the bands coming together.
All the bands coming together to create basically a Drama lineup.
A Yes Drama lineup. Steve Howe, Jeff Downes and Chris, Alan
White. It was all mixing together.
MWE3: So that was supposed to happen before Syndestructible came
out? I heard Syndestructible in October 2005.
SN: Yeah. The More Drama tour should have happened in August.
MWE3: It must have been interesting hooking up with Tom Brislin for
the Big Sky sessions. I saw Tom play with Yes.
SN: The Symphonic Yes tour. Hes a great keyboard player. A phenomenal
keyboard player. And when I was thinking about a keyboard player,
he was the first guy I thought of. I went to see him play a couple
times with his band, Spiraling, and then I invited him to join. I
liked his Yes connection because it kept everything in the loop...to
keep that connection. Hes done a great job on the album. So
that really worked. Again, a bit like I met (Paul) Stacey, through
his studio, I met Bret Kull through his studio. Getting to know Bret
Kull, and hes a fantastic guitarist and musician, based out
in Philadelphia, he came on board with us on guitar. He plays with
a band called Echolyn and he introduced his drummer to us, who joined
us. Two great musicians. A guy called Paul Ramsey, an actually phenomenal
drummer. It sort of organically grew into this fantastic group. Of
course on backing vocals, rather than replace Chris with a copy if
you likeone thing we dont do is that, Syn have never been
copyistswe went for a girl singer. Someone called Dorie Jackson,
whos the most beautiful, fantastic singer. And last October,
Francis was touring the U.K. and I did some dates with him. And just
me, Francis and Dorie acoustically on stage. Absolutely brilliant.
It just worked fantastically well. So we invited Dorie up to Philadelphia
last January to do backing vocals on the album and theyre absolutely
perfect.
MWE3: So the live show for the Big Sky 2009 tour starting in
April will have a full rock sound?
SN: Weve got two guitarists, bass, Tom on keyboards. Weve
got Erica Brillhart playing on mellotron and additional keyboards.
And then weve got Paul Ramsey on drums obviously and me. Theres
seven of us on stage.
MWE3: So youll still be able to play a Syn rocker like City
Of Dreams with the Big Sky band?
SN: Yeah, well do it in our own way. Itll be a different
way cause its different musicians. So well do the
songs in a different way. We havent decided which songs from
Syndestructible to do. Well definitely do Cathedral
Of Love.
MWE3: With new arrangements?
SN: Yeah...
MWE3: That song originally had a great arrangement. Paul Stacey is
credited with being the producer of Syndestructible...
SN: Hes the main guy, with Gerard. Mainly the production
was more to do with Stacey. Hes got a big talent, Stacey. Hes
fantastic.
MWE3: Why did you call the new album Big Sky?
SN: I think really its about looking at the bigger picture and
not get dragged down. Its very much lyrically an album of today,
when were faced with so many problems. Francis calls it the
Obama album. (laughter) Because hes saying this
is a time of change now. And thats about the bigger picture.
No matter how bad things are now, how they appear to be, if you look
at the bigger picture then we can make it better. A chance to get
it right. Theres the track called Big Sky which
says it all. Open your eyes to the big sky. Like looking down at the
rubbish, the difficulties we face at the moment, which are massive
for most people. Lets do it again, but lets do it right.
Francis describes it as an album of hope, the hope that we can do
it better.
MWE3: Back to comparing Syndestructible to Big Sky...
SN: That was definitely a 20th century album and this is a 21st
century album. I think thats the difference between the two
albums. Both lyrically and the way it's musically constructed. Im
really proud of Syndestructible. I think it's a great album.
We put a lot of ourselves into the album. But weve done the
same here. Big Sky has taken a year to make. Theres a
massive amount of effort going in to it.
MWE3: Are they all new songs?
SN: All new. I write lots of songs. All the time. When it comes down
to actually having to construct songs specifically to record, I take
bits and pieces of different songs and put them all together to create.
Every day I do something. So I pull bits and pieces of different songs
to create the bigger song.
MWE3: How do you balance your leading the Syn with your work with
your Umbrello records business? Do they compliment each other?
SN: I try to get them to compliment each other. They need to do that.
Otherwise its very difficult. I try to keep everything pretty tight
within Umbrello. Im trying to go for quality, not quantity.
You have to concentrate hard out there. The industry is on it's knees,
as you know. And really, Umbrello is a vehicle for the Syn but then
Ive brought other elements into it and they overlap with The
Syn. A lot of what I do with The Syn, overlaps into other projects.
Ive even made a track with the fans. The 14 Hour Technicolor
Dream was a forum.
MWE3: You recorded Reasons And Rituals with the 14 Hour
Technicolor Dream band. Does that fit in with the Big Sky sound?
SN: Its much more symphonic then I think what were doing
on Big Sky. And Im going to follow that theme, thats
called the 14 Hour Technicolor Dream. Ive just finished writing
what I describe as a prog-rock opera. And thats something Im
going to do with the 14 Hour band. Ill get The Syn involved
with it but Im going to make that a very big project after I
finish Big Sky. Thats my next project. Ive written
it. Its finished. Its great. Full length. Its big.
Its huge. Prog symphonic, that is, definitely.
MWE3: Does your work with The Syn take a different course from the
work with Umbrello?
SN: The Syn does its own thing. Its touring, so Ill tour
with The Syn. Meanwhile we have a lot of content coming out on Umbrello
regularly now. We try to keep it very within one genre. Keep it nice
and focused. Weve got people like Allan Holdsworth on the label
through K2. Weve got John Paul Jones playing on the Julie Felix
album. Shes like a U.K. Joan Baez, shes a folk-singer.
I had it mixed and mastered.
MWE3: Umbrello is also getting involved in video on demand.
SN: Were already in that. On the video on demand, we put out
the 14 Hour Technicolor Dream Band, the making of Reasons And
Rituals. We filmed it. Its only 21 minutes, the film and
the track itself is about eight minutes. That went to number one in
the charts. The film. On it is a performance of the song, in the studio.
Thats included in the 21 minutes. It was very short and yet
it was a number one seller. It beat the Rolling Stones, U2, Elvis
Presley, 50 Cent. We were there for a week. And that was great. All
the guys involved, because they were were fans of The Syn. They were
good musicians though. They were good. Bret Kull did the production
on that. The last thing I did was I brought them all together in the
studio and did the last fixes, the last parts of it in the studio.
And then Bret, we spent about five hours constructing the track. We
put a lot of effort into it.
MWE3: Why did it take so long for you to return to the music world
when the Syn finally reunited in 2004. I know you told me you never
stopped writing, but no one knew about you...
SN: No one knew about. Well I wasnt doing it. Im just
making up for lost time I guess now. And its all about timing really.
I had that whole business thing going on, in other businesss
for the last thirty years. And I am in business in different ways.
Im very into the building of eco housing. But thats to
do with saving the planet. The prog opera is all about that as well.
And Im actually doing a benefit with Chrissie Hynde, doing one
of my songs. A song called Prisoner Still. Its all
about that. Thatll be in the U.K. later in the year. The Syn
will be playing. Its being arranged now.
MWE3: The Original Syn album, the first reunion from 2004 was
so great. I know Pete Banks got kind of disappointed afterwards about
the business stuff. Heres a guy who has such a great sound.
SN: Hes a great guitarist. Hes a unique guitarist. Got
his own style. If you look at the history of Syn musicians, theres
a quality and a uniqueness about them. Chris Squire, going back to
Andrew Jackman, our original drummer Gunnar Hakonarson. Phenomenal.
And then the reformed band with Gerard Johnson, with Paul Stacey and
his brother Jeremy on drums. Then Alan White comes in. Now it's Tom
Brislin and Francis Dunnery and Bret Kull. The band has got a history.
And it goes back to Pete Banks, he was the early guitarist for The
Syn. The thing I feel about Pete Banks, his uniqueness is what makes
him special. The thing about Pete Banks, when he plays, you know it's
him. You recognize him. And that's a key to any great musician. Is
to know them when they play. It's a trademark. Even with all those
thousands of guitarists, when Pete Banks plays guitar, you know its
Pete Banks.
MWE3: Its kind of sad that Petes not playing with The
Syn anymore, even with a cameo or an appearance.
SN: Actually, the three key guys from The Syn from the 60s,
that are still alive now would be me, Chris Squire obviously, and
Pete Banks. And I can see a time when we will come back together in
some form. Either in the recording studio or in some way. I wouldnt
be surprised if that happened at some point.
MWE3: Getting back to The Original Syn album with Pete from
04, what made you want to record a new 3 part Syn version of
the 1970 Yes classic Time And A Word with new parts?
SN: Time And A Word? Well that was Pete Banks idea.
Pete wanted to do a song. You remember Pete Banks plays on the Yes
album track. He plays on Time And A Word of course with Yes.
So itd be good if The Syn made that connection with Yes, that
were so strongly connected to Yes that we do a Yes song. Like
the Syn was the pre-curser to Yes, he comes back and does a Yes song.
And it turned into an epic. (laughter) I wrote a middle segment for
it, Time In The Affairs Of Man. So I put that in the middle
and it fit very well. A different song, but I themed it into it. Its
great. We put a massive amount of work. It turned out really well,
Time And A Word, I think. And the credit for that goes
to Gerard Johnson. He put that track together. Hes the guy behind
that track. And Illusion as well. Illusion
is the other track, the opening track. Banks is all over it. I think
it's the best thing Petes done for a long time as well.
MWE3: Do you still keep in touch with Pete?
SN: No unfortunately. I dont know what it is, maybe its me.
I seem to fall out with him. Maybe cause Im the singer
(laughter) The singer always falls out with everyone. (laughter) Theres
always something to resent. The problem is that you always have, when
you talk about Umbrello. If youre the guy whos put them
together, both financially and bringing the bands together, you end
up having to wear two hats. Youve got the record label hat,
the business hat and then youve got the musicians hat. And musicians,
theyre terrible complainers. Theres always someone to
blame but its not them. (laughter) So its always someone else's fault.
So anything that goes wrong, I was the target to blame. Bands always
blame the record label. Because the record label didnt do this,
they didnt market it. Theyll never say it didnt
sell because it wasnt any bloody good.
MWE3: But the Original Syn album was such a good record.
SN: It did well though. It sold well. If you compare it to what record
sales...see record sales are so poor these days anyway. Even the big
sellers dont sell like they used to. Thats whats
killing the music industry. And a band like Yes cant even get
a record deal. They cant make a record cause they cant
get a record deal. So what are they going to do? They can either do
what I do. You can make your own label.
MWE3: Which they did anyway.
SN: And then they went bankrupt. They made Magnification and
it went down the tubes. And the company went with it. And the problem
is, it was their company, so unfortunately they werent able
to blame the record label! (laughter) Cause it was themselves.
So it was a shocker. And they never recovered from that. And no record
label will touch them. See, the problem is, to make an album, like
Yes makes albums, the kind of costs they have...the record labels
arent interested.
MWE3: Wasnt making Syndestructible a big....
SN: Oh, we lost a fortune. We spent a lot of money on it. We put a
lot into it. Spent a lot of money. I doubt we broke even. And we sold
a lot of albums by todays standards. It did well. It was a success
for a prog-rock album. Sold better than anything Yes or anything Yes
related in the last ten years, by far. In terms of sales. And whether
they ever make another record or not... I doubt it. Because the modern
technology doesnt suit their way of Yes music. They need to
go in the studio and do a symphonic thing. Thats what they do.
MWE3: One last thing on the Original Syn double CD. Did you
end up taking back the rights to the early Syn singles, from the 60s,
that were on the first CD?
SN: Yeah, I bought everything. I own everything. So I own that music
now.
MWE3: You were talking about adding a new vocal to the early Syn favorite
The Very Regimental...
SN: The Very Victorious And Valiant Band. When it was
recorded, Andrew wanted me to do vocals and I just didnt fancy
it. I wasnt doing that at the time. But in retrospect, (laughter)
itll be kind of cute to do it now.
MWE3: It sounds like you.
SN: Yeah! Well it was my song I suppose...(sings) Everybodys
sitting waiting for the show to begin, Everybodys looking sad
nobody wears a grin, because they... I remember it. Its
funny, you dont forget the lyrics.
MWE3: Do you remember recording those tracks?
SN: Oh yeah...
MWE3: Theres a real 60s vibe there but they still sound
contemporary.
SN: Yeah, thats cool. What did you think of 14 Hour Technicolor
Dream?
MWE3: Are you going to do that song on the new Syn tour?
SN: We do them all. Very 60s! Nothing changes. When you think
thats 50 years ago! (laughter) Well 40 years ago, yeah. Feels
like 50 years. I wrote that song when I was 14. Grounded
when I was 14. Thats first song I ever wrote.
MWE3: Did you have to do any tweaking in the studio on the original
60s Syn tracks?
SN: No. We had the original masters and that was it. They were recorded
at Marquee studios. Where the Rolling Stones used to record. Again,
Gerard Johnson put it all together with Martin Adelman, who was the
original drummer. Whos also a bit of a technophile.
MWE3: With the tapes and stuff.
SN: Yeah, we put it all together and created that. It was very interesting.
Francis was listening to it the other day...
MWE3: Do you ever regret not recording more stuff with the Syn back
in the '60s?
SN: Yeah, I do. Yeah, cause we were a very good band.
MWE3: The Yes Album and Syndestructible are closer than
you think.
SN: Oh, theyre close.
MWE3: Cant wait for that Syn box set you were talking about
to me.
SN: Yeah, there will definitely be a compilation.
MWE3: Like with Reasons And Rituals...
SN: All that stuff. Itll all be on there.
MWE3: Maybe that remake of Mr. Whites White Flying Machine.
SN: I think were doing live, Francis wants us to do Sunset
Boulevard Lament.
MWE3: Ive got to catch up on some of the demo tracks after the
unreleased studio tracks on the Original Syn...
SN: A few tracks on it were really rough...
MWE3: Like I Cant Explain.
SN: That was The Selfs, that wasnt like The Syn yet. That was
The Selfs. But why we put that on there. It was Chris first
ever recording. So that was the first time Chris was on tape. That
was a band. Im not on that that. That was this band called The
Selfs.
MWE3: So the next project after Big Sky is the rock opera.
SN: Im going to do the opera. Id like to start working
on a new Syn album as well. Im just going to keep recording
now. Keep making records.
MWE3: I think you should. Sounds like theres some great music
still left in you.
SN: Yeah thats it. Ive got a new album in my head for
The Syn that I think would be fantastic. Again, another direction.
Very Syn, but again taking it slightly in the other direction. Thats
why I think Im approaching The Syn a bit like The Beatles. And
I think this new Syn album, Big Sky has parallels to the Beatles
albums. Not that it sounds like the Beatles album but the way that
it's constructed. White album era Beatles... or Abbey Road may
be a better comparison...
Thanks to Steve Nardelli @ www.SynMusic.net
and many thanks to Richard Cervone
for his excellent photos of The Syn during a magical night of music
@ Joe's Pub in NYC